July 30, 2010
Robbery on 41st Last Night
53 Comments »Forwarded to me from the FHNA;
At around 9:30pm on Thursday evening, my dad was robbed at gunpoint in front of my house. He had gone outside to cool the car for before he, my mom and I were about to visit my cousin, and as my dad waited an African-American man in his mid-twenties opened the front passenger door, pointed a gun at him and asked him for his wallet. The man got in the car with my dad and held my dad’s seatbelt tightly so he coudln’t move and then demanded his cell phone as well. After he had what he wanted he ran to a car waiting around the corner at Boscobel and 41st and the car sped away. My neighbors phoned the police who were on the scene in minutes and we all gave an account and filed a report. As of now nothing has come of several phonecalls but we all recognize what could have happened and praise the heavens above that the night ended as it did.
Please, neighbors, be aware. We live in a lovely neighborhood but unfortunately many unlovely people are out there and feel no qualms about taking what they want.
Peace and safety to all
Sounds like it’s time we pull out our weapons and be prepared to dish it back. They must think our neighborhood is a good place to pull this crap because they keep getting away with it. Make these punks stay away!
@Macie – It sounds like they’re really good at this and work to immediately gain total control of the situation. Citizens confronting them with armed force is probably not practical, because thus far they’ve taken their victims by surprise.
One thing I do whenever I see a car that’s circling or seems out of place in my neighborhood is jot down or photograph the license plate number. I use an application called Evernote that timestamps and even location-stamps the image, and permits me to add keywords so I can find it later.
I’d bet my butt these guys are circling the block a few times, looking for a victim. That’s how the cops will probably get them.
(Still, if you’re sitting out on your porch it probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to keep a shotgun or rifle at your feet.)
One thing to consider before throwing lead is that if you kill the thug, it’s going to cost you 10k right off the bat and a lot more later down the road.
Plus, you’re not justified in taking a life just to protect the few dollars in you pocket and the police will nail you big time. Best hand it over with a smile.
And finally, and this is the BIG one, even trained cops, as recent events in this city have demonstrated, are LOUSY shots when it hits the fan, so the odds are that untrained you are gonna kill a child or senior citizen or someone’s pet before you hit the perp.
Under the circumstances, your best defense is to go indoors and stay there when the sun goes down. It’ll save you a world of hurt.
I think a little caution goes a long way, but inexperienced people toting guns seems like a bad idea. Sit on your porch. See people you don’t know walking around or acting suspicious? Go inside and call the cops. Don’t let these jerks make you stop using the best weapon in your aresenal, your common sense.
Vigilante justice, yeehaw! Let’s get our guns and torches and pitchforks, let’s make this a safer place to be by murderin’ the crap out of them criminals! YEEHAW! BANG BANG BANG!
We’ve gone from relatively late-night robberies to broad-daylight holdups, which sounds to me like some cocky young kids are seeing no negative consequences to their actions. Make all the hillbilly jokes you want to – I suspect one of these kids ending up with a hole in him would up the risk-to-benefit ante considerably.
We are all angry about this but I think we should take a lesson from the victims who have all walked away with their lives. Hand over what they want, observe and remember as much detail as you can to give to the police.
Honestly, if these guys are confronted with a gun by anyone who is NOT a police officer it will make ALL OF US less safe. Let’s say you are held up, you pull a gun and they run and get away….the next time they come back (and they will) they will be angry, trigger happy and jumpy.
I think a private citizen with a gun would only make matters worse.
Please, think before you act.
Or, Worried Mom, they will leave your neighborhood alone and go somewhere else.
Why do you think the muggings are taking place in Woodland Heights in the first place? I hate to stereotype, but the criminals do. Your neighborhood is an unlikely place for a mugger to encounter any resistance.
If you guys want to keep getting what you’re getting, keep doing what you’re doing. Maybe each of you could place a basket of valuables on the sidewalk each night? That would certainly make the muggers feel less jumpy.
@Worried Mom – The main reason muggings aren’t more common is that people are afraid to mug other people. One of the big reasons for that is that the would-be victim might kill them. So I would agree with Jennifer C. about risk-benefit analysis.
The problem, as I wrote above, is that these guys strike so quickly that an armed person probably would not have time to react. That’s not an argument against carrying; it’s an argument against drawing.
Right now the thing that’s encouraging muggers to hit your neighborhood is that other muggers are operating with impunity. You need to stop that, and the most effective way to do that is write down tag numbers and vehicle models.
South of the Semmes- You speak so casually about pulling a gun on someone that I am certain you have no idea what it is like to do so.
Rule one: If you point a gun at someone you are ready to take their life.
Rule two: If you point a gun at someone who is already pointing a gun at you, you are ready to die.
It’s pretty simple really.
The police are trained and ready to do what they need to do. Our best defense to to help the police be where they need to be when they need to be there. Let’s set up some organized neighborhood watch patrols with the police.
Actually, #9, a properly trained citizen would have plenty time to draw and fire, IF they are vigilant and aware of their surrounding (but then, they wouldn’t be a victim to begin with so chicken and egg).
You can find the color code system that I practice here. It can save your life.
Of course, we’re talking about a “properly trained” individual and not some dude who took one of those 2 hour courses they give at the gun shows.
The real argument AGAINST slinging lead is that it’s going to cost you an arm and a leg in legal fees and once you shoot somebody, and in the eyes of law enforcement, you become a perp and will be treated as such and regardless of your justification, the legal system will come down hard on you.
You may ultimately prevail, depending on the make up of your jury, but it’s going to cost far more than the 200 dollars or so you had in your pocket.
And remember, even if you DO get off,the thug will have family and friends that may get revenge on you and yours.
I DO agree with #8, WH is a soft target.
One potential bright spot though, it’s been noted in this and other forums a number of times that when school starts up again, this crime wave will end.
I personally don’t buy that because I think it’s a slap in the face of our less affluent students, but other people (even some police) do, so perhaps there’s hope that the problem will just go away on it’s own.
The main reason Woodland Heights is being subjected to this is due, above all else, the neighborhood’s proximity to the adjoining neighborhoods that are likely home to the criminals, as well as to the parks and thoroughfares that provide a convenient conduit for them.
We are, quite simply, just a stroll away: the ease of access both in to and out of Woodland Heights makes it a magnet for the kids who are doing this. The fact that criminals can simply disappear into FHP or JRPS is also a circumstance that is attractive to muggers and thieves.
To imply that somehow the residents of Woodland Heights are inviting this is far fetched, in my opinion. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that the ‘soft target’ stereotype being bandied about is in any way based in fact.
the criminals are psyched about the new lake park renovation, because of its isolation its qa good place for them to work
Then, Stuffa, you haven’t talked to any kids who live in the “adjoining neighborhoods.” I have. Every day. Trust me, you guys have a reputation.
Also — and I hate to bring up a horrible memory — it was Ashley Baskerville, who lived in the Broad Rock neighborhood, who led Dandridge and Grey directly to the center of Woodland Heights on January 1, 2006. And it wasn’t so they could run into the park, because they were in a van.
You’re missing the point….it’s the proximity of the neighborhood and not the actual residents: an important distinction to make.
It’s all about location, location, location.
You seem to be inclined to blame the victims, which is not exactly helpful. If you know who is doing this, why aren’t you taking action?
I have to agree, at least in part, with #14.
It’s a well known fact that scum goes for the targets they feel will offer the least resistance, the weak, the infirm, the elderly, the folks without the will to resist.
Even the cops will tell you this.
It’s not “blaming” the victims to point to these things out, it’s just simply stating facts.
Stuffa, what kind of action would you like me to take?
Should I call 911 and inform the police that, over the course of 10 years, a number of kids in the neighborhood, many now grown, have made jokes and snide comments about the residents of Woodland Heights not being street-smart? And when they ask me if I have any hard evidence tying these random comments (also known as hearsay) to the recent muggings, what would you like me to tell them?
Part of the reason we like living over here — and feel secure and welcome in our neighborhood — is because we don’t have the cops on speed dial. So you’ll pardon me if I don’t start a campaign of random snitching over idle talk on your behest.
Which is why the two most recent holdups occurred in Forest Hill? To Forest Hill residents?
In the interest of sharing your superior knowledge to prevent future crimes, why don’t you spell out exactly what it is about Woodland Heights residents that makes them targets so that they can take appropriate measures.
Specifics please.
*Sigh*, there’s no disgrace with being a potential victim, either by physical limitations of as a result of where you live.
As a senior citizen with an artistic nature, I share much in common with the residents of Woodland Heights in that regard.
The “disgrace” is not coming to terms with that fact and NOT taking action to “harden the target”.
In my case, that meant self defense courses aimed at seniors, training and proficiency with the implements of self defense and using common sense as I go about my daily life.
It DOES NOT mean living in fear or being embarrassed because thugs see you as a target.
To live in denial of the reality around you is the REAL crime, and one that could very well cost you your life.
That isn’t very specific at all.
I ask again: in spite of the fact that the most recent victims were Forest Hill residents, what *exactly* is it about Woodland Heights residents that you are so certain acts as an attractant for the criminal element among us?
Guys, they really aren’t trying to insult you. I live in Forest Hill and we’re probably just as “target-y” to these kids, but we’re not as conveniently located. I’m pretty sure all they’re suggesting is to be aware of your surroundings.
Jennifer, I happen to agree with you, but it has been stated more than once that this is happening because Woodland Heights residents *are* target-y rather than because of their location and very convenient access.
So, I’d like to hear/read more specifics. :o)
Sure, and it’s a legit question but it’s also a trick question. Reason is that THIS is not the venue to “be specific” because as we’ve seen and as I’ve learned in the past, some folk who post here are very sensitive.
I will say, that in my post #19,
I presented the case pretty well.
I’ll also add that #14 hit the nail on the head, and that is “specific” as we need get.
There are also plenty of people making moronic generalizations about neighborhoods’ population demographics without backing up their statements with any facts, all the while ignoring the obvious, which is location, location, location. Look at a map sometime.
The law enforcement officers who live in Woodland Heights would agree with me.
Sure, location is a PART of it, as I was the FIRST to point out in this forum regarding WH when this crime spree began.
I made that VERY same argument myself.
However, to say it is the ONLY factor ignores the obvious.
I understand that no one wants to have their neighborhood tainted with the reputation of a hot bed of crime because of the effect it has on property values, but sometimes, the safety of our citizens should come before economic considerations.
Stuff and TV, stop bickering. Your points have been made. Move along.
I think it is a combination of things causing Woodland Heights to be a “softer” target. Number One,simple geography, we are closer to areas of poverty and crime than Forest Hill or Westover Hills. (please spare me your shock, you know it’s true). Two, Woodland Heights over the years has become more affluent. A house on 32nd which 7 years ago sat abandoned with a hole in the roof visible from the first floor, is now one of the most expensive houses in the neighborhood. Woodland Heights simply looks more attractive to criminals these days. And Three, YES, whether you want to admit it or not, residents of Woodland Heights tend to be more on the “individual, free thinking, liberal, passive (some would say bleeding heart) side. And these types are sometimes more likely to become victims because they cannot agree, they cannot “conform” and they cannot organize worth a hoot. For example, last city election, Woodland Heights had the opportunity to oust the poor performing Marty Jewel but threw away their votes because they couldn’t agree on one of the two other candidates. They wouldn’t even DISCUSS it. Everyone knew a split WH vote would result in Marty’s re-election, but everyone held their highly-individual ground. And as a whole, Woodland Heights lost…again.
United we stand, Divided we fall. And Woodland Heights residents struggle to unite, even when their safety depends on it. It’s one of the (few) “downsides” of living in a community as unique, liberal and artistic as Woodland Heights.
At the moment, the muggers want money or property and I agree with just giving them what they want. Most criminals begin their career committing small crimes of opportunity and moving on to larger crimes. The rush of scoring $20 only lasts so long before the addiction of easy money pushes the criminal to commit larger crimes, possibly escalating to breaking into homes, car jackings, or worse. The most recent muggings have been of a non-violent nature and hopefully remain non-violent. I worry that a future victim will not have the property that the mugger wants and the crime will escalate to a violent confrontation, then what do you do? Be aware, prepared and don’t let yourself become a victim.
I don’t know about you, but I sure as hell don’t want a gun pointed at me. The best thing you can do is not become a victim in the first place. The best way to prevent yourself from becoming a victim is to be aware of your surroundings at all times. Do not allow yourself to become distracted! That is when you become the “Golden Ticket.” From what I have heard so far, their pattern seems to be the same, but how long will that last? How long until they get bored and want to push it to the next level? When will they become violent? I absolutely love our police force and appreciate everything they do for us. I have the utmost respect for what they do and the decisions they have to make. It is a job I could never do. But they can’t be everywhere all the time. You need to be prepared and help yourself, no one else is going to be there to do it for you.
tvnewsbadge
It’s obvious to me that, based on your sophomoric color code as well as the number of times that you have contridicted your own advice, that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
To suggest that one should not to defend themselves because of fear retaliation or financial loss is base cowardice.
From your posts here its obvious that you’ve never had to fire a shot in anger or out of necessity, and the only reason you’ve had to defend yourself is because of your moronic comments on internet blogs.
So do us all a favor, sit in your arm chair and shut up.
This is all fascinating…but what does any of it have to do with the fact that the two most recent robberies at gun point occurred in the Forest Hill neighborhood?
An aside to #27: FYI Lee Shewmake was a comparatively conservative candidate, backed by a healthy number of politically conservative Woodland Heights residents, but she did not garner very much of the vote *at all*, in Woodland Heights or in any other part of the district.
Babushka
When will they become violent? Are you kidding me? Their pointing guns at people!
Friendly reminder by your all powerful moderator. Please keep the tone civil and be respectful of other opinions. We are all on the same side on this issue.
I should amend that post to say that Lee Shewmake did not garner *enough* of the vote…the vote was split in all the precincts in the district.
#27. Just for the record, Woodland Heights amounts to only about a third of the Fifth District. The area north of Semmes is not even a majority of the votes south of the river. If you add the Shewmake and Brandon votes, they still amount to less than a majority. Second, the moderator is right. Since police can’t be everywhere, in advance of crimes, a strong neighborhood watch can be vital. Volunteer to be a block captain, walk the streets at night as a NW patrol, get involved with your neighborhood association…or just complain to a blog and do nothing constructive.
Actually, #30, if the victims had been following the principles of my “sophomoric color code ” they wouldn’t have been mugged and this discussion would not be happening now would it.
Actually # 36 the only creature I am aware of that has a 360-degree peripheral awareness is a flounder.
To #28. I wouldn’t agree that an armed robbery is “non-violent”. I consider having my life threatened by a jumpy (possibly high) teenager holding a loaded gun violent, even if there are no physical injuries sustained. That said, I agree that the best way to handle this as a victim is to hand over your money, wallet, cell-phone or anything else not worth dying over and letting the thugs move on. We need to organize, observe and keep the police well informed of anything out of the ordinary.
#35. Good point. I hope everyone here is putting as much energy into their neighborhood watch efforts as they are posting.
People who post but DO nothing are guilty of “Slacktivism”.
Now off to drive around for an hour with my cell phone in hand…
#32 bshaw
You are correct! Pointing a gun is extremely violent. My meaning behind the “violent” statement was when are they going to inflict bodily harm on people?
#38 I agree with you it is a violent act to have a gun pointed at you. I should have stated that the current muggings haven’t resulted in bodily harm to the victims. If the robberies due start to become violent what do you do, how do you defend yourself, do we just accept the beating, or get shot. I refuse to be the victim that is defenseless.
#39 I agree whole heartedly, we need a fleet of neighbors doing the very thing your doing.
#41 raises a good point.
Everyone is rehashing the problem, but except for me, no one is offering any insight on what they intend to do about it on a personal level.
Doesn’t sound like anybody really has a plan to avoid being a victim except for the gun option which is impractical for the average citizen not willing to commit the time in training to become proficient with it.
Hey folks! I didn’t take the time to read all the comments, just noted the volume of typing and some of the time stamps, and was struck by the fact that all of the time spent with verbal fencing on H&H could have been better spent going for a walk around the block, sitting on your porch with a neighbor, etc. Remember that Tuesday is National Night Out. Power down the computer and get outside. (Just my $.02.)
I don’t know about anyone else on here, but we were out on our porch for over an hour last night, as we are most nights, ready, willing, and able to report any suspicious activity to the police should it be observed.
So… why was the passenger car door unlocked?
#45–he was waiting for the other people to get into the car. Are you assuming it was the victim’s fault?
Is the patrolling organized? I would like to help, preferably by walking with other dog owners but I will patrol by car if that is what is needed. Contact me at jca10@hotmail.com
I was suggesting that perhaps when you’re sitting in a car, you should lock the doors.
I lock the doors every time I get in the car, whether I’m waiting for someone or not. Outside my house, in a parking deck… outside 7-11 when someone’s run in to grab a drink. If I’m in the car, the doors are locked unless someone is actively entering or exiting.
Prevention is the best medicine – lock your doors people!
I live about two blocks from the 41st robbery scene. I am willing to be involved in making our neighborhood safer and a harder target. Who are the contacts? Where can I find info on neighborhood watch and captains?
Local Neighborhood Watch Contact Info.
Forest Hill
Westover Hills
Woodland Heights Neighborhood Watch but most information is posted to Woodland Heights Yahoo Group
My dad was the victim Thursday night and believe me, he wishes that he would have had the doors locked, too, and he usually does. But he didn’t that night because he thought my mom and I were right behind him as we said we would be. It was a terrible event that could have been much much worse and my family and I are grateful that it ended as it did. One thing that the dectective told us the next day – if you see the robbers’ car, REMEMBER THE TAILLIGHTS. He said that many many cars can be identified by the type of taillight they have so any details about them are really really helpful. Also, if the thief opens the door or tries, tell the police. The detective was able to get fingerprints and DNA from my dad’s car.
So glad your father is OK Suzanne and that you and your mom didn’t walk into the middle of it. I know you all are so thankful.
Thanks for the taillight tip, that is great advice!
Wow, a lot to read and take in over here. I would say that nobody on the board is right and nobody is wrong. For those who are trained and comfortable with firearms carrying one is a deterrent and might save them or another one day. You have to be honest with yourself first before running out the door loaded to teeth however. Honest about what your level of training and comfort is and arm yourself with the knowledge of when to properly use that firearm. If you get robbed and wait for the bad guy to run away and shoot him in the back be prepared to answer some hard questions from the police as sympathetic as some might be to your situation. Those that feel watching and waiting and calling the police your right too. The police are out in your neighborhoods and they are in need of you guys. The phone calls about cars that don’t belong in the neighborhood or the people riding or walking through that don’t belong are going to lead to arrest and to a safer neighborhood. Organizing the neighborhood watch is a great idea there is safety in numbers and it’s a great way to meet and build strong neighborhood bonds. This is a scary moment for both the W.H. and F.H. neighborhoods but it will pass and things will go back to “normal” at some point. Until then and even after please remember no neighborhood is so far removed that it can’t attract the wrong crowd looking to take something you have worked for so please be aware of your surrounding and look out for each other.