Clear Your Walks, Cars & Other Snow Tidbits
As we discussed last post storm the city requires that everyone shovel their walk to prevent injury to pedestrians. Also this will allow folks to walk on the sidewalk instead of the middle of the road. Cars will be hard pressed to stopped in an emergency so if you are walking in the road stay extra alert. If you can help out a neighbor. While out there brush off the snow from your car roof so it doesn’t fly off and hit someone.
Now for the tidbit portion of the post.
- Just because there is snow on the ground does not give you the right to ignore stop signs. If you argue, “If I stop I will lose my momentum and get stuck” , to this I say “you shouldn’t be out driving if the street is that bad”.
- Neighbor Chad saw someone using a gas powered leaf blower for blowing the snow off his SUV. Really a gas leaf blower?
- This morning I witnessed a car go through a stop sign. When I looked up to glare at the driver I noticed in his lap was a child (guessing 4-5 yr old). Yes driving through stop signs with a child on your lap. I was so stunned I didn’t catch the license plate.
- If a road looks too bad to drive on it probably is, so don’t. If you get stuck that could potentially block the road for plows and more importantly the fire and police departments.
- Be careful where you sled and watch out for the little ones. It is amazingly easy to get hurt or run over a small one.
- Don’t call the fire or police department to check on when your street will be plowed. They don’t know and are being over worked right now. Try 3-1-1 not 9-1-1.
More as I think of them.
Running stop signs is nothing.
During an extensive tour of the stricken areas starting at oh dark 30 this am I was amazed to see two folks who got stuck on the snow plow mountains while leaving the parking lot of commercial establishments on Midlothian abandon their cars in place so no one else could get by them, blocking the entire parking lot.
Another interesting sidebar regarding plowing.
While driving to and from Richmond City and Chesterfield and Henrico, I noted that the main drags like Broad and Huguenot etc were picked clean down to the asphalt in the counties but still sported a fat layer of compacted snow once you crossed over into Richmond City.
I certainly agree re: stop signs and most of what was in your original post and in the first comment. I especially agree with the last paragraph. Richmond deserves an “F” when it comes to its ability to meet minimal requirements re: snow response. In addition to living on a street that has yet to see a plow or a sand truck, I was treated to the job of trying to get to work this a.m. Forget Cherokee Rd – looked like a bobsled track. Huguenot Rd. and the bridge were fine – Cary St. Rd basically passable – until I reached the exit to the Downtown Expressway. Possibly two or three guys with teaspoons had been there to make it possible to take the exit, may on Friday before it stopped snowing. Richmond gets an F- for snow removal.
Sorry for a couple of typos – meant to use F- throughout the post and those guys were possibly out there with their teaspoons on Saturday. Apologies for the mistakes. Also meant to add – to the City which “requires that everyone shovel their walk to prevent injury to pedestrians” — citizens require you to start doing your job to protect pedestrians and drivers.
According to NOAA, Richmond’s average annual snowfall is about 13″, which figure includes sleet and ‘pellets’. Since we have had nearly twice that dumped on us in just 2 storms, it should not come as a surprise that snow removal preparedness falls short.
With all due respect, as a transplanted Yankee who happens to have just returned from a junket to Boston, I think that some of the problem lies with residents who do not know how to drive or otherwise cope in these conditions.
In those parts of the country that see this amount of snow and much more, side streets seldom get cleared down to asphalt, sidewalks are cleared by citizens, and people generally get on with their lives.
It’s my understanding that 10 feet from the road is still considered to be city property. This is why many trees throughout the city are “city trees”. However, they “require” us to shovel the sidewalks that are within this designation? Another F for the city. If someone has a better grasp on the property law, please let us know.
I thought I heard a fella from the city today said that the streets were not plowed to the degree that the counties were was because a large number of plows went down with mechanical problems.
If that’s true it’s certainly something City Council needs to grill the Mayor on.
While these snow storms have been dramatic, they have not come close to matching some of the events we’ve had in the past.
If the City of Richmond vehicle maintenance shop cannot handle these relatively minor events, what will they do when a REAL storm or emergency hits?
This little kerfuffle about sidewalk shoveling is amusing.
Our property line ends at the sidewalk. Take a look at your plat sometime to verify. :o)
Everything from (and including) the sidewalk to the curb is city property.
When you buy a home in the city, the deal is that you maintain what is front of your property. Check the ordinances sometime.
This is, as far as I can tell, pretty much universal throughout the US and has been so for generations: You mow the grassy area (if there is one) between the sidewalk and the curb, you shovel snow off of the sidewalk, etc., etc.
In the suburbs, you are responsible for maintaining the easement in front of your house, since property lines there often do not extend to the street either. So, you get to mow property that isn’t yours and shovel part of a driveway that isn’t yours either.
There are many more linear miles of street within the square mileage of the city, making more of a job for plows in urban areas.
Meanwhile, our sidewalk is shoveled and I had no trouble getting around in my little car which has a mere 4″ clearance from the ground. Did my errands today with no problems whatsoever.
What I would like to see is the city enforce some of these ordinances, and fine people for not doing their civic duty. Then maybe they could generate some revenue from other sources and not rely on property taxes exclusively.
I’m not sure that enforcing laws just for the sake of generating revenue would be entirely moral or even legal.
Especially when in older communities like Westover Hills, pedestrians refuse to use the sidewalks because they’re dangerous.
Plus, in terms of fairness, how do you tap the wallets of homeowners who don’t have sidewalks to shovel? They certainly represent many miles of untapped gold.
Is it fair to let them off the hook?
Amusing post Stuffa. My point was/is that while the city takes responsibility for the trees in that 10 ft, or the far edge of your sidewalk (don’t have one), they expect us to clean the sidewalks and be the responsible party in case something happens? It’s a double standard. Civic duty? My road is still covered in ice and snow. I can also get out in my low clearance car but ask my 74 year old neighbor how well they are doing.
Back to the main point, the city’s snow removal abilities are abysmal. Are the operators trained on how to use a snow plow. On the main streets the problem is not that the roads aren’t plowed, but that the blade is sitting too high. They’re definitely too high the 90% of the time that the trucks are driving around with the plow in the up position on roads that still need plowing.
Additionally, why is VDOT precluded from plowing city streets? Do city dwellers tax dollars not buy the same state services as those in the county? Heavy snow years happen, and they have since I was a kid. Cars have been along city streets since Ford put the model T into so many hands. Why is Richmond so full of excuses for nearly every lacking service they “provide”?
This provides a unique opportunity to actually do something in stead of complaining. The Mayor says he will have town hall meetings next month to discuss budget priorities. If you don’t go, don’t state your priorities, then it’s your fault if the money goes elsewhere.
Also, did anyone else see the city-owned front loader cleaning the parking lot of the Maldini’s shopping center on Saturday?
I’m glad my property taxes went up for the 6th straight year to pay for such stellar city services.
It’s time to end the “independent city” model in Virginia- we pay higher tax rates than county residents, so we should get something in return for it.
Looks like the City is going to get a another chance this weekend with 12 inches or more on the way.
That said, I for one am glad that they aren’t doing the residential streets. All that does is block in cars long after the necessity is over.
I’d be happy if they just did the portions of the hilly streets that cars can’t get up without some help.
My real beef isn’t so much what gets plowed and what doesn’t but the PR spin the city always puts on their snow performance instead of admitting it’s beyond their ability to handle with the current equipment, manpower, and funding.
Complain away, neighbors!
To me it most definitely is *not* a double standard to expect residents to maintain the small stuff and the city to take responsibility for the big stuff. As stated previously, this is how it’s done in this country.
The city’s snow removal capabilities are certainly not abysmal, especially when (realistically) compared with other cities around the country. The snow emergency routes are cleared. Lesser roads will be cleared later. City streets are frequently plowed ‘high’ because of the multitude of manhole covers and other features.
If you are concerned about elderly neighbors then by all means be neighborly and offer them rides and any other assistance that they may need. Clear their sidewalks for them. Encourage you children to be good little entrepreneurs and send them out to make some money shoveling snow!
Our street is icy too: in fact so is the entire neighborhood. I don’t have any problems getting around and I don’t have 4wd, either.
Which brings me full circle to my first comment: people down here just do not know how to cope or drive in snow. It’s not like it *never* snows here, so it is funny that so many people are so unprepared.
I grew up in the suburbs of New York, and even our small cul-de-sac was plowed throughout the snowfall, and all roads were clear within hours of when it stopped snowing.
As for Richmond, it seems like the city is doing all it can with the resources it has. Last night they were clearing my non-major street in Stratford Hills with backhoes. Kudos for being out at 2 a.m. (and giving me strange dreams of asking kids to stop riding dirtbikes inside my fenced yard). BUT, a single midday scrape by an actual plow on a truck would be wayyyy more effective than trying to pick up the ice with a backhoe. That thick layer is ready to be shoved out of the way by a plow at the right height, but I understand the city doesn’t have enough trucks or plows to do the whole city in one afternoon.
Personally I think it would be kind of extravagant for the city to invest in the excellent snow equipment my hometown has. I’d rather they spend money reducing violent crime and writing people tickets for running red lights (which would make the roads safer all year – vs. the 7ish days each year that the snow makes the roads unsafe).
And for the record, I think the city admin sucks in general. I’ve just gone from hating it here to enjoying how bad it is (and the little pleasures like the police’s community and web outreach, the great parks department, etc.).
Again, the point is responsibility and the shouldering of that responsibility, not what is neighborly or a “civic duty”. As for the “compared to other cities” point of view, that’s like saying my Pinto is great compared to that Yugo. It’s still a Pinto.
I disagree. The point is community and community rules (ordinances) and our responsibility to comply with ordinances.
City ordinances spell out what are and are not the responsibilities of the city vs. those of the citizenry. It might be more productive for folks to do their homework before they a)move to the city, and b)complain about local ordinances.
As residents, it is our responsibility to understand and comply with our local ordinances. Our civic duty, in other words. If one does not wish to comply with city ordinances, one runs the risk of being penalized.
I mention other cities because I can: I’ve lived in other places and based on my experience, Richmonders have next to nothing to complain about. Real estate values and property tax burdens are both below the national average here and yet the more vocal among us are fond of complaining about a lack of services such as sidewalk cleaning.
I’m not sure that Richmond’s tax burden compares to the national average has anything to do with the question at hand, which is how snow removal efficiency in Richmond City compares to the snow removal efficiency in the surrounding counties.
As far as this being a question simply of bad apple citizens being “fond of complaining”, we need to remember that this is just one example of what many see as the failure of City Government to address the needs of the citizenry.
As far as “Civic Duty” goes, that’s a two way street.
Just as citizens have a responsibility to their government to obey the laws, so does the government have a responsibility to the citizenry to provide good value for their tax dollars.
Clearing sidewalks is a good example.
Sure the citizen has a duty to provide a safe sidewalk in front of their house, but doesn’t the city has an equal responsibility to keep those selfsame sidewalks in good repair?
I personally don’t have a dog in this hunt. I want the city plow to stay out of my neighborhood. I think they cause more problems than they solve on narrow residential streets.
But I don’t think tax paying residents should be criticized for asking the government to live up their responsibilities.
The city *does not* have a responsibility to clear the sidewalks. That is the point. This is spelled out in the ordinances, which is precisely why sidewalk shoveling is NOT a good example of government ‘responsibility’.
Comparing city services to suburban services is moot as well. Those who feel that lack of city sidewalk clearing is such an injustice are free to move to the suburbs where there are no sidewalks at all.
Quibbling over the perceived paucity of services in the land of low tax burdens borders on absurd.
Just buy a $20 shovel, clear your sidewalks as you are expected to do in any municipality, learn how to drive in inclement weather and stop expecting the government to do every last little thing for you.
I just want a sidewalk. I will gladly clear the snow if I only had a sidewalk…
City is making some changes to the way they deal with snow. Don’t expect anything dramatic in time for this weekends storm. http://tinyurl.com/yd9njzu
“The city *does not* have a responsibility to clear the sidewalks. That is the point. This is spelled out in the ordinances, which is precisely why sidewalk shoveling is NOT a good example of government ‘responsibility’.”
Agreed, but providing safe sidewalks to clean in the first place IS certainly a function of local government, or at least one that our local government has assumed for many years.
“Those who feel that lack of city sidewalk clearing is such an injustice are free to move to the suburbs where there are no sidewalks at all.”
And sadly, many do when their children reach school age, or at least did before the housing market went into the toilet.
But though fun to debate, that’s a side issue to the big picture, which is that these recent snow events have brought to light some question as to the City’s ability to cope with “emergency” situations.
Of course, we can blame the residents claiming they lack the alleged superior driving skills of their transplanted Yankee cousins.
Or we can blame those nit-picky “vocal among us” who “are fond of complaining” and the City spin often does.
But I doubt that either of those two spin based approaches will make the roads any safer this weekend, if we do indeed get that 12 inches plus of snow.
But I could be wrong.
Ah-ha! Got it! City trees falling on cars = act of nature. Can’t sue nature. People slipping on city sidewalks = act of man. Sue the pants off of someone(someone, not the city because it’s an ordinance). I will give the city some credit. They sanded the road in front of my house today. That’s a step in the right direction and an obvious reaction to the all of the “complaining”.
Hey guys, Just up on RTD D. Jones has responded to alot of our concerns. Check it out.
“Ah-ha! Got it! City trees falling on cars = act of nature. Can’t sue nature. People slipping on city sidewalks = act of man. Sue the pants off of someone(someone, not the city because it’s an ordinance).”
I really do not understand the indignation here. New to city living? New homeowner? Why the surprise re: age old customs, laws and responsibilities?
You might want to brush up on some basics regarding liability in general. I suggest contacting your insurance agent for an overview.
If a tree falls *anywhere* (on public or private property) due to weather & causes damage then yes, it is an act of nature.
For example, if a tree on your property falls onto your neighbor’s property during a storm and causes damage, it is your neighbor’s problem, not yours. If a city tree falls on my vehicle during a storm then it is my problem.
Unless of course the tree was deemed to be a hazard to begin with (dead/diseased, rotting and falling limbs, etc.) and the damage was caused by lack of basic maintenance rather than an act of nature, in which case you may have an argument if you can prove negligence. However, the catch is that it would be your civic duty to report hazards as they arise.
Which is the case with sidewalks as well.
If a sidewalk is actually damaged in some way, report it to DPW and they will repair it. But we’re talking about shoveling snow, not general repairs here.
As for snow removal in general: as stated previously, we have already well exceeded the annual average in two exceptionally (for this area) heavy storms. Of course there are going to be problems with snow removal in such a scenario.
So learn from this situation: practice driving in snow so that you’re not so intimidated. Buy chains or snow tires like people do in other snowier parts of the country where streets are seldom plowed down to asphalt. Be grateful that tons of salt are not being spread, further damaging roads and vehicles.
Adapt. Prepare. Handle a little adversity with a measure of grace. Be a good neighbor and do your civic duty. Smile and have some fun in the snow.
It snowed? Well, I’ll be dogged!
“Unless of course the tree was deemed to be a hazard to begin with (dead/diseased, rotting and falling limbs, etc.) and the damage was caused by lack of basic maintenance rather than an act of nature, in which case you may have an argument if you can prove negligence. However, the catch is that it would be your civic duty to report hazards as they arise.”
Agreed. The problem is that people DO report these dangerous trees and the city takes up to three years (in my case) to address the problem.
They also won’t let the homeowner take action on their own, even if they hire a professional crew to deal with the issue.
The problem with automatically blaming the residents for the lack of attention to these things is that you have to assume that the resident has not brought them to the attention of the city.
In fact in most cases the city has been made well aware if the problem and for whatever reason has not taken action to address the issue ( I was told by a worker with the Urban Forestry folks that they do not have the manpower to maintain the city trees).
As far as the street cleaning and driving goes, I think we’re really debating two different issues here.
I learn my living by being out in the worst of it in a variety of rolling stock, none of which are equipped with 4wd, snow tires or chains and get along better than many of the folks from Northern climes that I see in ditches along side the roads, so I find this bashing of Richmonder’s driving ability laughable, if not insulting.
I think the real question here is what do these problems the city is having with what even for Richmond is a rather benign snow event say about the city’s ability to handle more serious events like major ice storms, hurricanes, etc.
“I really do not understand the indignation here.” – No, you don’t.
“The problem with automatically blaming the residents for the lack of attention to these things is that you have to assume that the resident has not brought them to the attention of the city.” – Exactly. Lot’s of assumptions going on. “I find this bashing of Richmonder’s driving ability laughable, if not insulting.” – You’re better than me for finding only this one piece insulting.
The truth hurts, certainly, but it’s not bashing by any stretch.
As for citizen involvement, there has been a strenuous effort to shift the discussion from road conditions and snow removal to sidewalk and tree maintenance. Let’s stick to the matter at hand if we’re going to disagree.
Snow removal in Richmond is about on par with other cities. No realistic cause for complaint on that subject.
The city is not responsible for clearing sidewalks. A long-standing, widespread custom written in to the local laws. No cause for complaint there, either.
Local drivers cannot cope as well as their Northern counterparts in snowy conditions. Simple fact. Why else the crush at local markets for bread and milk in the face of a few flurries?
The original effort was to compare citizen’s responsibilities to the those of the city’s and point out how biased toward the city they are. The use of trees was an example. There was never any need to condescend to your fellow posters or take the topic in a new direction. As for the roads, the city has taken some good measures and looks like they will continue to work in that direction.
ZOMG the comments in H&H went to a nasty negative place?? I am SHOCKED!!
So, I am from the North and in defense of Richmonders – how can you expect drivers to know how to handle ice and snow if it rarely happens? Halt the time we get snow it melts the next day. And yes, there are plenty of Northerners who end up in ditches.
I am also from the North and driving in snow takes practice. Luckily, or not so luckily, we don’t get many chances around here to drive in snow. Personally, I’d rather stay home and enjoy the “snow treats” I purchased at Ukrop’s when snow was forecast.
Our side streets were finally cleared yesterday. My husband stopped the DPW worker and thanked him. And, then asked why the snow removal was so spotty. The reply was equipment had broke down and there was none available to take up the slack.
I think there were a lesson to be learned this Winter and that is not to discard snow removal equipment or snow shovels during sunny times.
*was* not *were* a lesson to be learned. I learned grammar up North, too.
“The original effort was to compare citizen’s responsibilities to the those of the city’s and point out how biased toward the city they are.”
Obviously I have a very different perspective.
All I have to do is keep a snow shovel on hand and keep about 60′ of sidewalk clear.
The city, in comparison, gets to maintain the fleet of plows, fire trucks, ambulances, police cars, street cleaning equipment, tree-trimming equipment, paving rigs, utility equipment, trash collection trucks, buses…and that’s just a smattering of the *vehicles*, and doesn’t include things like gas and water lines, water treatment, and so on, and so forth ad nauseum.
All for a .12% tax on the fair market value of my home.
It’s a world gone mad, I tell you!
AreaMan (#13) is right — “It’s time to end the “independent city” model in Virginia” — but that’s a discussion/debate for another day! Shovel’s ready? More on the way tomorrow and Saturday!
“The truth hurts, certainly, but it’s not bashing by any stretch.”
“Local drivers cannot cope as well as their Northern counterparts in snowy conditions. Simple fact. Why else the crush at local markets for bread and milk in the face of a few flurries?”
Sure, but the problem is that we have what are essentially shop-worn urban myths presented as “truths” without a single shred of hard evidence to back them up.
When is the last time anyone actually SAW a “crush at local markets for bread and milk in the face of a few flurries?”
I was in Ukrop’s last Friday night and no such thing existed.
And national weather coverage on CNN and the Weather Channel long ago put the lie to the alleged expertise of our Northern cousins as they hit the roads in winter.
You see the SAME shots of vehicles in ditches and slipping sliding cars and spinning tires that you do in our local weather coverage.
As has my own experience driving through Penn and Maryland in various ice and snow storms.
It wasn’t my Virginia plates sitting in those ditches.
To continue to bring up spurious arguments that have no basis in fact and present them as absolutes certainly does, in my opinion at least, qualify as “bashing”. Otherwise, what’s the point or repeating these fictions?
If you’re home during the day today (Friday), I suggest you clean off the street in front of your house (as well as your sidewalk, of course) periodically while the snow is still falling. That way, you won’t be dealing with ice tracks again on the street, and you won’t need to be lifting major shovelfuls of snow when the storm ends.
That’s the way we handle it back home in Minnesota. ;^)
Off topic, but I hope the neighborhood blogs continue to tell us what’s open in the neighborhood.
This is a very valuable service that is unavailable anywhere else for folks who get cabin fever.
Ukrops shoppers are MUCH more organized than that…they probably had all of their shopping by noon last Friday. ;oD
Snow plows very active this am on Forest hill Ave and Blvd… some pics on Flickr
Also CAO Byron Marshall out on the streets checking. Was in Stratford Hills about 2 pm, checking on a neighborhood that got little relief earlier in the week. This time suburban plowing using contractors started about the same time as main arteries using city crews. Please post your street results, so we can see how it is working. At 4:43 still snowing in bursts.
Over in Forest Hill Farms, the streets were plowed late yesterday and again this afternoon. Hoping the snow has finally stopped….
Pleased to see our block of Devonshire got plowed early this morning. First time since we moved here five years ago. Not sure who did it, but I don’t care!
The 5200 block of King William and Peterborough were plowed by a front end loader around 9. Then I saw a sander hit Peterborough around 3. Roads are in bad shape right now but not as bumpy or rutted as previously. Curious to see how hard this all freezes up tonight. For the record my walk is shoveled but haven’t brushed the snow off my car since I am not going anywhere anytime soon.
I just walked up to Forest Hill Avenue and it looks pretty awesome. Cars seem to be travelling close to normal speed. The neighborhood streets of Westover Hills west of the boulevard are pretty frozen up.
While dog walking yesterday I saw that W 26th St. in Woodland Heights had been plowed: due to the traffic light on Semmes and 26th, the street is a popular cut through to Riverside, so no surprise that it was plow before other cross streets down this way.
We’re not having any trouble getting around anyway, though.
Interesting take on the conditions up North on NPR this morning. Even though they got up to a whopping 31 inches of snow, the crews had already cleared the main roads and were making good progress in the residential areas and expect business as usual by Monday AM.
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